I can't believe what I just saw!
I was outside looking east at the old ATA hanger that was
battered by Hurricane Charley, when suddenly I heard the
sound of an airplane accelerating.
Then a few seconds later I saw a Cessna (182 or larger)
attempting to climbout.
This plane was rocking, yawing pitching and everything else in
between just to stay aloft.
I was really worried that I was just about to witness a disaster
in the making.
Why this guy waited till 11:25am to leave this area is beyond me.
The ASOS at the field is on because the tower has been
evacuated ever since the winds climbed over 20kts.
The ASOS at the time that this guy lifted off was
reporting winds at 31kts with gusts up to 47kts.

I will probably never know who that was, but if your
the guy and your reading this..... Your Nuts!

Dave (KORL)

> The ASOS at the time that this guy lifted off was
> reporting winds at 31kts with gusts up to 47kts.

That's *it*?

Shoot, I've flown in 62 knot peak gusts in clear air in Wisconsin. (Not
that I recommend it, mind you...)

I guess I'd have expected a hurricane to be more, well, windy...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message ...
> > The ASOS at the time that this guy lifted off was
> > reporting winds at 31kts with gusts up to 47kts.
>
> That's *it*?
>
> Shoot, I've flown in 62 knot peak gusts in clear air in Wisconsin. (Not
> that I recommend it, mind you...)
>
> I guess I'd have expected a hurricane to be more, well, windy...
>
Jay, I guess that makes you the crazier of the two of us.
But was your 62kts during takeoff with at a 30degree angle to the rwy?
And this guy was also banking his plane onto crosswind at only about
150-200 agl with not much room left for clearing the large hangers,
not to mention that he was flying towards the downtown area where
he has to climb to above a 20 story building in less than a minute.
And to clarify, the hurricane is not here yet.
We are just getting some of the outer bands of wind.
The Hurricane is not expected to reach us till morning.

I was out taking pictures of the planes that have been left behind.
One guy has actually placed about 4x20lbs sand bags on the tail of his
plane.
I'm not really sure that is going to help any.
The partially damaged hanger doesn't look like it can resist anymore
highspeed
winds. And other hangers in the area that survived the first hurricane with
only
the loss of their doors, now have no hanger doors to protect them.
I will try to send you pictures of before and after if I have internet
service.
Pictures of a/c damage caused by Charley are on my site at:
http://www.floridascubadiver.com/hurricane_charley.htm

FSU football player: "When they said the hurricane is coming, I thought they
were talking about the University of Miami."

Dave (KORL)

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:S5m_c.101854$9d6.69565@attbi_s54...
> > The ASOS at the time that this guy lifted off was
> > reporting winds at 31kts with gusts up to 47kts.
>
> That's *it*?
>
> Shoot, I've flown in 62 knot peak gusts in clear air in Wisconsin. (Not
> that I recommend it, mind you...)
>
> I guess I'd have expected a hurricane to be more, well, windy...

A *hurricane* is more windy, by definition. That guy wasn't flying in a
hurricane.

Also, peak gust isn't really as relevant as the gust amount. I'd say 16
knot gusts are pushing it for the edge of safety, at least in a Cessna
piston engine airplane.

I'd much rather fly in a wind of 57 knots with 62 knot peak gusts (for
example...not saying those are the conditions you referred to) than 31 knots
with 47 knots (though, of course, I'd rather not fly in either).

Also, you don't specify whether you actually departed in "62 knot peak gust"
conditions, or if you were just flying in them. There's a significant
difference between the two types of operation.

Anyway, I'd say that while the guy probably should have left earlier, in
less windy conditions, what he did sounds challenging, but not necessarily
reckless, especially if done by an experienced pilot.

Pete

CFLav8r wrote:


> Why this guy waited till 11:25am to leave this area is beyond me.

That's a Cessna for ya man. Try that with a girlie man low wing
Cherokee...instant death.

> I can't believe what I just saw!
> I was outside looking east at the old ATA hanger that was
> battered by Hurricane Charley, when suddenly I heard the
> sound of an airplane accelerating.
> Then a few seconds later I saw a Cessna (182 or larger)
> attempting to climbout.
> This plane was rocking, yawing pitching and everything else in
> between just to stay aloft.
> I was really worried that I was just about to witness a disaster
> in the making.
> Why this guy waited till 11:25am to leave this area is beyond me.
> The ASOS at the field is on because the tower has been
> evacuated ever since the winds climbed over 20kts.
> The ASOS at the time that this guy lifted off was
> reporting winds at 31kts with gusts up to 47kts.
>
> I will probably never know who that was, but if your
> the guy and your reading this..... Your Nuts!
>
> Dave (KORL)
>

Don't be such a wuss.

"Murphy" wrote in message ...
> Don't be such a wuss.
>
Well you know what they say...
There's old pilots and there's bold pilots....
But there's no old bold pilots.

....0p

> Also, you don't specify whether you actually departed in "62 knot peak
gust"
> conditions, or if you were just flying in them. There's a significant
> difference between the two types of operation.

I was a student, flying with my instructor, on my first landing at a
controlled airport. We were landing at Waukesha, WI (UES) in the early
winter, having taken off in clear air with a fairly stiff wind from East
Troy, WI (57C).

While we were airborne, the wind REALLY picked up. At altitude, of course,
we felt no significant difference, but we could see by our ground track that
the winds were truly howling.

As we approached Waukesha to land, we became aware that there was literally
NO ONE else on this -- or any other -- frequency. Descending, the air
became fairly turbulent, but -- as a fairly new student -- I didn't think
much of it. (I figured this, like everything else, must be "normal"...)

Wrestling the plane around the pattern, the tower called out the wind was
340 at 40, with gusts. By now even I, in my "newbie" state, knew that this
was not the norm! As we swung onto final, I realized that the runway was
not getting closer very quickly. Coming down the glideslope, the tower
announced that they had just experienced a "peak gust of 62 knots."

Even Bob -- my crusty old CFII with 20,000 hours in every form of
aircraft -- muttered "Oh, ****" to that.

On short final it became obvious that I was not going to be able to land. I
announced to Bob (my instructor) that there was no way I could land the
plane -- at which point he announced "My airplane!" and took the controls.
With the yoke slapping back and forth from lock-to-lock, and the rudder
pedals going alternately to the floor, we slewed crazily through the air, 20
feet above the runway.

Eventually, after what seemed like an eternity, we touched down with a
not-too-terrible thud, and ever-so-carefully taxied to the ramp. Upon
touchdown, the tower actually congratulated us for making a "good
landing" -- and as we taxied past the tower we could see that people had
actually lined up at the base of the tower, just to see us land our little
Piper Cherokee 140... I'm sure they expected to see us splatter good ol'
N5755U, but it didn't happen that day.

Okay, so *I* actually didn't land the plane, but it was a great, uh,
learning experience. (And very typical of my instructor, who believed he
could fly any plane in any conditions -- and often did. We had many
similar adventures together, and I learned an awful lot from him.

He's retired now, but they just don't make 'em like that anymore. Which may
be a good thing! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

The guy called you wuss, and the best you could come up was a old worn
flying cliche?

"CFLav8r" > wrote in message
om...
> "Murphy" wrote in message ...
> > Don't be such a wuss.
> >
> Well you know what they say...
> There's old pilots and there's bold pilots....
> But there's no old bold pilots.
>
> ...0p
>
>

Depends on whether the winds were straight down the runway or not. What was
the crosswind component? Once you are in the air, the wind makes no
difference at all except for your groundspeed.

Perhaps he did not leave earlier because it took him that long to get to the
airport. He might have had to come in from out of state.

In article >,
"C J Campbell" > wrote:

> Depends on whether the winds were straight down the runway or not. What was
> the crosswind component? Once you are in the air, the wind makes no
> difference at all except for your groundspeed.
>
> Perhaps he did not leave earlier because it took him that long to get to the
> airport. He might have had to come in from out of state.
>
>

This morning, several of us, who normally "gaggle" to breakfast, met and
discussed flying in this condition. We are about 40 miles from ORL; the
wind was straight down the runway. As long as the air is relatively
smooth, there is no problem, as long as you take care taxiing
(especially in a high wing).

A C-182 is not a C-172, it feels heavier and is heavier, so it is more
stable and a little more resistant to x-Wind.
"Gust" means nothing other than wind changes direction up to 30deg. of given
Wind in ATIS, METAR or TAF.
If the wind is not very much off the Rwy. heading, you just have to wait for
the right moment. The C-182 has enough Power "once airborne" to handle these
winds. But it also depends on the pilot and his skills.
I am not saying any pilot should go out and take the risk, but if a pilot
has expirience with x-wind and knows what he is doing and knows his
aircraft, why not!
Everyone else should stick with his personal minimums, as learned once
during his training.

A C-172 would be in my eyes a no go!!!
A C-182 I would eventually do it! (Saw the pictures after Charly)
A Piper Seminol--Sure!
Don't forget this is my personal opinion!

a CFII, MEI

"CFLav8r" > wrote in message
om...
> I can't believe what I just saw!
> I was outside looking east at the old ATA hanger that was
> battered by Hurricane Charley, when suddenly I heard the
> sound of an airplane accelerating.
> Then a few seconds later I saw a Cessna (182 or larger)
> attempting to climbout.
> This plane was rocking, yawing pitching and everything else in
> between just to stay aloft.
> I was really worried that I was just about to witness a disaster
> in the making.
> Why this guy waited till 11:25am to leave this area is beyond me.
> The ASOS at the field is on because the tower has been
> evacuated ever since the winds climbed over 20kts.
> The ASOS at the time that this guy lifted off was
> reporting winds at 31kts with gusts up to 47kts.
>
> I will probably never know who that was, but if your
> the guy and your reading this..... Your Nuts!
>
> Dave (KORL)
>
>

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<jpr_c.292038$eM2.33875@attbi_s51>...

> Even Bob -- my crusty old CFII with 20,000 hours in every form of
> aircraft -- muttered "Oh, ****" to that.

> He's retired now, but they just don't make 'em like that anymore.

Sounds like my CFII- there's a few of the kind left out there. He's
getting up there in years but is still clear as a bell where it
counts. And the instructors I flew with in Alaska had it, too, and
they were in their 30s. You just have to know where--and how--to look
for them.

Every so often when it's either wicked windy or disgusting low scud I
get a call from Hal. "Wanna go do some approaches? It's raining like
hell out here."

Best,
-cwk.

> Every so often when it's either wicked windy or disgusting low scud I
> get a call from Hal. "Wanna go do some approaches? It's raining like
> hell out here."

Yep, that sounds just like ol' Bob. He did things like:

1. Demonstrate a take-off in 200 foot ceilings, with zero visibility in the
clouds.
2. Followed by a 180 degree blind turn-around, with an immediate landing
back on the opposite runway.
3. Demonstrate that it IS possible to drag the tie-down hook on the
runway -- but you have to be at an extreme angle to do it.
4. Demonstrate how to land in fog by "plowing" an opening in the fog with
repeated passes down the approximate location of the runway.

....and so on.

He's moved to Florida in retirement -- I hope he's weathered the hurricanes
okay.

(And to think all he had to deal with in Wisconsin was blizzards, bitter
cold, and tornados... ;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Brad Z wrote:

> The guy called you wuss, and the best you could come up was a old worn
> flying cliche?

You are so right. Rather than let that troll go, he should have just
come out swinging and not stopped until there was no heartbeat, just
like those college bar days.

That would have made you happy, no?

--
Peter

"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Brad Z wrote:
>
> > The guy called you wuss, and the best you could come up was a old worn
> > flying cliche?
>
> You are so right. Rather than let that troll go, he should have just
> come out swinging and not stopped until there was no heartbeat, just
> like those college bar days.
>
> That would have made you happy, no?

That's just usenet tradition.

Paul

Quite a story, Jay. We don't get winds like that too often around here,
but they do come (as you're obviously aware!). Two years ago on the day
I was supposed to solo we had gusts to 55 or so. Nobody flies at
Gran-Aire (Timmerman) these days with anything over 35 knots.

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>Also, you don't specify whether you actually departed in "62 knot peak
>
> gust"
>
>>conditions, or if you were just flying in them. There's a significant
>>difference between the two types of operation.
>
>
> I was a student, flying with my instructor, on my first landing at a
> controlled airport. We were landing at Waukesha, WI (UES) in the early
> winter, having taken off in clear air with a fairly stiff wind from East
> Troy, WI (57C).
>
> While we were airborne, the wind REALLY picked up. At altitude, of course,
> we felt no significant difference, but we could see by our ground track that
> the winds were truly howling.
>
> As we approached Waukesha to land, we became aware that there was literally
> NO ONE else on this -- or any other -- frequency. Descending, the air
> became fairly turbulent, but -- as a fairly new student -- I didn't think
> much of it. (I figured this, like everything else, must be "normal"...)
>
> Wrestling the plane around the pattern, the tower called out the wind was
> 340 at 40, with gusts. By now even I, in my "newbie" state, knew that this
> was not the norm! As we swung onto final, I realized that the runway was
> not getting closer very quickly. Coming down the glideslope, the tower
> announced that they had just experienced a "peak gust of 62 knots."
>
> Even Bob -- my crusty old CFII with 20,000 hours in every form of
> aircraft -- muttered "Oh, ****" to that.
>
> On short final it became obvious that I was not going to be able to land. I
> announced to Bob (my instructor) that there was no way I could land the
> plane -- at which point he announced "My airplane!" and took the controls.
> With the yoke slapping back and forth from lock-to-lock, and the rudder
> pedals going alternately to the floor, we slewed crazily through the air, 20
> feet above the runway.
>
> Eventually, after what seemed like an eternity, we touched down with a
> not-too-terrible thud, and ever-so-carefully taxied to the ramp. Upon
> touchdown, the tower actually congratulated us for making a "good
> landing" -- and as we taxied past the tower we could see that people had
> actually lined up at the base of the tower, just to see us land our little
> Piper Cherokee 140... I'm sure they expected to see us splatter good ol'
> N5755U, but it didn't happen that day.
>
> Okay, so *I* actually didn't land the plane, but it was a great, uh,
> learning experience. (And very typical of my instructor, who believed he
> could fly any plane in any conditions -- and often did. We had many
> similar adventures together, and I learned an awful lot from him.
>
> He's retired now, but they just don't make 'em like that anymore. Which may
> be a good thing! :-)

> very typical of my instructor, who believed he
>> could fly any plane in any conditions -- and often did.>>


Am I wrong, but hasn't the FAA in recent decades sought to develop flight
instructors who were good teachers, not hot shot pilots who could fly anything
with wings in any conditions??

I haven't instructed in YEARS, but when I went for my CFI and CFII check rides,
they were more interested in my teaching skills than my flying skills.

>> very typical of my instructor, who believed he
>>> could fly any plane in any conditions -- and often did.>>
>
>
> Am I wrong, but hasn't the FAA in recent decades sought to develop flight
> instructors who were good teachers, not hot shot pilots who could fly
> anything
> with wings in any conditions??
>
> I haven't instructed in YEARS, but when I went for my CFI and CFII check
> rides,
> they were more interested in my teaching skills than my flying skills.

I agree with your point, to a degree.

Bob was very "old school" in that he felt he could fly anything, anytime,
anywhere. Of course, after 20K hours, I suppose maybe he *could* -- but in
retrospect, he probably was more reckless than logic dictated. On the
other hand, I learned a LOT from him that I would never have learned from
some of the 20-somethings I fly with now.

This somewhat cavalier attitude extended to the planes he had on the rental
line at his FBO. Although he would never send someone out in a rental that
HE felt was unsafe, in my opinion his attitude toward the mechanical
condition of his rental planes was way too lax. On the other hand, his
rentals were far more affordable than the "safer" planes I see on the line
today.

Of course, I knew NONE of this at the time -- it is only in retrospect that
I realize it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Maybe once you're a couple of grand up (at least), but near the ground,
unless you live on a planet as smooth as a cueball, it's gonna be bumpy, to
say the least.

mike regish

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...

> Once you are in the air, the wind makes no
> difference at all except for your groundspeed.
>
>
>